Re:Sand-Bagging - 2008/04/04 17:11
This is a great conversation. I've thought a lot about it because I feel that I'm in between divisions skill wise.
I followed a traditional path of rising through the divisions. I started in Am II and moved up right after my first Am II win, (2002 Chuck Freedland Memorial), I struggled in Am I for a year before consistently finishing in the top 5 in NorCal. I won my first Am I in 2005. I have played Open every event since then and managed one win at a small CVS tournament. Currently my rating consists of rounds rated as high as 1015 and as low as 940. So which one am I? A 1015 golfer, or a 940 golfer? There's a pretty big difference between the two.
Personally, if I had a choice, I would prefer to play Am I right now. I know, I know, I have enough plastic already. But, it's not about the prizes for e. I'm not a 'Professional' athlete and I don't stand a chance competing against the true pro's. I work 50 -60 hours a week, have a family and a house to take care of and manage to volunteer time to the club. While I try to maintain my disc golf skills there just isn't enough time in my life to practice enough to be truly competitive in the pro division. Doesn't this mean I'm really just a good amateur? Now I pay twice as much for some tournaments just so I can be beat twice as bad. (My record at Dela is good, but just look at the rest of my rounds). Luckily for me I enjoy so many other things about disc golf than winning that I don't really regret my move to Open. But, I do know some other people in the same sort of situation that have lost interest in playing competitively because they can't devote the time into practicing like when they first started and everybody gives them such a hard time for playing Am that it's not fun for them.
I feel that there should be no cap on the top Am divisions (Am I, Am Masters and Am Women). This is the place for people who are playing tournaments because they find it fun to play organized disc golf events with an aspect of competition. You should move into the Open division if you like the extreme competition or if you are seeking to raise your disc golf game to the highest levels. Would it be better to have only age protected divisions and no skill based divisions? That way nobody is 'bagging'. This may mean that most of us will never have a chance at getting a trophy, but those trophies would have much more meaning behind them. Would you still compete if you were placing 20th in the Masters Cup instead of 1st or 2nd Am?
My hope for the future is that disc golf takes a couple more steps towards having a true 'Professional' level and an amateur level. I'm hoping we can reach something more of the level of bowling. There are enough true Pro's making a living at the sport that they an have it as a career and there is a huge amateur following that play leagues and will watch those Pro's on TV.
I admit, I love the competition. I love putting my skills to the test against the best, even if it means receiving a continual beat down. Of course, when I qualify for Open Masters I'm moving there as soon as possible. It's tough being continually beat down by them young guns. At least there I can get beat by someone my own age.
See you all tomorrow at the monthly were I will bring my Am game to the Open division .
(Ok, I must be tired of working right now, this rambled a bit more than I had intended) http://www.santacruzdisc.com
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Tim Messer
Master
Re:Sand-Bagging - 2008/04/04 21:38
[ That's what you get for CASHIN'!
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Eric Kopit
Legend
Re:Sand-Bagging - 2008/04/04 22:10
It's OK, we still love you Stan!
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jason esper
Senior
Re:Sand-Bagging - 2008/04/05 16:10
can fifty footers all day long play open those are the rules stan
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Steve Lonhart
Legend
Re:Sand-Bagging - 2008/04/05 17:07
Hey Stan et al.,
My advice is play at the level you feel most comfortable. Ideally, that would be solely an internal decision, but alas it is not. Why? Because people are labeled as 'baggers' and there is peer pressure to move up.
Like Stan, I too once had dreams. But then reality gave me a quick kick in the rear, and now I get to have it further beaten in by old guys!
The one thing that keeps me coming back is the fact that I like the competition, usually feel I can (and should) be able to improve, and it sure is nice to bring home some cash every once in a while vs. another DX Orc to add to the pile of 10 others...
When I was playing AM (but before I was called a bagger), there was nothing sweeter than beating the guy everyone was calling a bagger... But I'm much more mature now...
And while it is fun to whoop on some AM booty, losing sucks, and everyone is your enemy. I much prefer the middle of the pack group I'm in now.
Cheers, Steve
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Jack Trageser
Legend
Re:Sand-Bagging - 2008/04/06 20:12
Just for fun, I'd like to chime in on this one too . . .
My feeling is that the best thing about golf - disc or otherwise - is the ever elusive pursuit of perfection. We've all had that 'perfect' round, but we know it wasn't really perfect. It coulda been better, and that's the beauty of golf. Anyone had 27 aces in a row at DeLa? Didn't think so.
Anyway, my point here, as it relates to the topic, is that I believe the most fun to be had in competitive golf comes down to being able to squeeze the very most out of your individual potential. And you'll never do that if you're not in a division where the competition challenges you. Here's my personal example:
I started playing tourneys as an AM 1 in the mid 90's, and after many tourneys where I didn't cash or maybe just cashed, my competitive juices were such that I analyzed why I wasn't winning (putting consistency), then addressed my flaws and did better. 1998 was a year of results for me, and after some Norcal wins and a 12th at the Am Worlds, I switched to Open. Talk about a humbling experience! I quickly realized that I wasn't as good as I thought, and once again I was forced to analyze where I could still improve (putting and mental toughness) my game with my now-established physical abilities .
I'm happy to say that my competitive drive allowed me to climb another rung, and finally, after many years, I now expect to finish in the top third of any Open or Open Masters event I enter. But it's not a given. Not even close.
Conclusion: The only people who are stuck in no-man's land are those with natural talent enough to dominate the Advanced divisions, but not enough love of the game to want to work to be competitive at the next level. For me, that's the essence of what makes golf a lifelong pursuit. I'm obsessed with the notion that I can always get better- but if I don't play against the best, how will I know?
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But I'm much more mature now...
