Re:Sand-Bagging - 2008/04/07 20:38
I'd like to see Am divisions have payouts FAR below those of Open tourneys. Reg. fees too. So even for a big tourney like the Masters Cup, the entry should be $30, and first place should get a trophy and maybe $60 worth of 'schwag'. And everyone gets the tourney shirt or whatever.
I think that most of the conflict around this issue comes from 'Amateur' competitions where winners get the equivalent of hundreds of dollars. For Ams, the trophy and the fun should be enough.
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Scott Kendall
Legend
Re:Sand-Bagging - 2008/04/08 07:00
Great Idea Jack!
I have been kinda thinking the opposite, that the payout at the top(open) should be much higher, but lowering the AM payout would achieve the same result. So if baggers are playing for the $$$ there would be no incentive to play AM.
It should be a lower entry with JUST a Trophy, put the money into the OPEN payout and Trophies.
Yeah, I said it, take AM money and put it into the OPEN payout
If/when I win, it would be the trophy I'd be proud of, not the plastic.
Last Cash, should be last trophy(certificate of achievement?).
Of course, this wont happen....
Just like there won't be a tourney with a $10K payout for first.
Here's a question....
How many of you would be willing to contribute $10 to get a golf tournament on TV????
What if $5 (AM) or $10 (Open) from EVERY pdga event entry went toward the World Championship Payout.... how much would that be?
$2160 just from the Master's Cup (Nate got $5k?)
If we put together a BIG MONEY event just once a year to begin with, we would see sponsors jump in with additional $$$
What if the World Champ took home a $100K prize....
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James Brennan
Grand
Re:Sand-Bagging - 2008/04/08 08:09
Jack, Scott:
I personally think both of those ideas are great. There really does need to be far more of a difference between Am & Pro payouts, not just merch vs. cash.
- JPB
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Everett Lyons
Master
Re:Sand-Bagging - 2008/04/09 14:36
It’s good to see all these insights. I have been discussing this post with people out on the course (now everyone is talking about it, it seems), but they don’t want to make their thoughts public by posting. At the same time, they state that they agree with me. I wish more people would voice thier comments here.
I think the idea is great about reducing fees and prizes for amateurs. That’s fantastic, Jack. All I really want is the assurance, to myself, that if I practice hard, I can better myself at something, and ultimately be recognized for it. That’s all. The trophy is “icing on the cake”, or “kif on the weed”. Ha ha.
Yes, James, I really should be playing Rec? Hmmm. Based on my ratings, that is correct. I would qualify there. I would have won the 2007 Masters Cup. And the 2007 and 2008 Otter. And any others, I imagine. I would have gotten 1st-place trophies! And they would have meant “nothing” to me, and you know it. I’m trying to play where I think I belong, but if what you say is true…then there is not really a place for me. For me to play Rec would not be considered “bagging”…that would be like me going down to the elementary school playground and pushing little kids around. I “think” I’m playing where I should be (when my rating updates, I’ll be around 910). In my feeble opinion, I think that “the human element” keeps some people from stepping up. They’d rather be the bully in the playground.
I know. How about ratings based divisions? 800-850, 850-900, 900-930, 930-960, 960-1000, open. Forget age. Or, the same thing, but broken at age 18. Anyone like that idea?
-Everett
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James Brennan
Grand
Re:Sand-Bagging - 2008/04/09 17:11
That's funny, the people I talk to about it are agreeing with me.
Everett:
I really don't think you should be playing Rec. I think your characterization is appropriate. Like I said before, I don't think your rating reflects your true ability. I think you're in the right division, just not in a position to be shouting "sandbagger" at 942 - 947 rated players in that division, especially in such a derogatory manner. It got my bristles up. I apologize if I came off as attacking you, but it's how I felt about it.
What's also funny is that the "human element" makes some people refuse to move up and makes some people refuse to move down. People are strange....
Pure ratings based divisions has many proponents for some very good and obvious reasons. It isn't likely to happen though, except at selected events where the TD decides to run it that way. The PDGA just won't go there, imo.
- JPB
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Eric Kopit
Legend
Re:Sand-Bagging - 2008/04/11 23:19
I tried, but I couldn't resist jumping in here! Argggh, no self control!!! (Why am I talking to myself? Shut up! No you!...)
I think you gotta ask yourself why you are playing tournament disc golf. For me (an amateur), it is to have fun and challenge myself physically and mentally. I don't care much about the trophies and schwag (although you can't complain about getting a free disc or two!), I just go out and play my game the best I can. If I do that within the tournament context of "this one really counts!", then I am satisfied. If my score happens to be better or worse than others in my division, well, that is something I don't have control over. I don't play in tournaments with the intention of beating others, just trying to make as few mistakes as possible in my own game. Did I do good things? Cool, woo-hoo! Did I make errors? I'll learn from them, and get better! Why? It's fun, challenging, good exercise, and you even get to meet some cool people!
As far as choosing my division, I would rather play in groups with players at my own skill level in order to do my best. For me, it's easier and more fun to do that with people that are looking at and/or attacking the course in a similar manner as I am.
If someone is not enjoying the PDGA division they are competing in (for any reason), they should explore playing in other divisions available to them. But why worry about what division other people decide to play in? You don't have control over that, just what division you are playing in.
The whole talk of forcing Ams to become Pros just doesn't sit right with me. Amateurs literally play for "the love of the game"; they are not playing for cash. What, you can't just be a very good amateur if you want, you have to become a professional? What other sport is like that? ANY?
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